i am Ekho Podcast: 002
Surviving Narcissistic Abuse with Jacqueline Johnson
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Transcript:
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People don't know what goes on behind closed doors. They only know what you show them. Right there, you could have called the police on him and said, this officer just pulled out a taser on me. Welcome to the I Am Echo podcast. I am your host Echo. And today I have the pleasure of having with me Jacqueline Johnson. She is a survivor of narcissistic abuse and she has graciously agreed to come on the show and tell her story. Jacqueline, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it so much. So you're a survivor of narcissistic abuse and you have a very interesting story in part because your abuser was part of the police force, right? That is correct. Yes. Wow. Okay. So could we kind of start at the beginning of the relationship? How did you guys meet and
Were there any sort of early signs that you were dealing with a nefarious individual? Yes, absolutely. So we met when I was in Austin and we met at a restaurant. He was a police officer. He had been on the force for many years. The community loved him. He was very charismatic and, you know, easy on the eye and all the things that we look for. He was very attentive.
to me, he just did all the right things. He said all the right things, especially coming from my ex-husband who did not do all of those things. It was like, oh wow, this is an answer to my prayer. And lo and behold, yeah, it was horrible. After the whole ordeal, I went through counseling with a trauma counselor.
And she was just telling me that it was just by the grace of God that I was even able to walk into her office because, you know, she's had women that she's known that didn't even make it out or they had to crawl into her office and they were just so, so broken. But I made it out and I was very bold in sharing my story and reporting him, even when I didn't think that they were going to listen.
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Because that was one thing he would tell me all the time is, they're not going to believe you. I'm a police officer. And as I began to, as I was going through the different episodes with him, you know, I would Google, you know, the famous Dr. University Google, and I would Google different things and be like, hey, if I were to report this police officer, you know, what are, what are the chances that they would listen to me? And the chances, according to Google, was very, very slim.
Very strong. And then he got really bold. He got really bold with it to where he started being really aggressive. He would like grab me. And before it was all over with, he was choking me. But I'll never forget this one particular time. And he had a tracker on my car. I had no idea any of these things was happening until, of course, we went through the investigation process of it. But this one particular time, he was very
adamant all the time about me answering my phone. And if I didn't answer my phone, it was like, I'm an officer. Okay, yeah, but you're not going out on calls. You're in the community. You're a community liaison. So you're not doing anything that's dangerous that, and I'm not saying that I should not have been worried, but it was just like, you're not going out on those types of calls. And it would always be, you're not answering your calls. I have a job.
I'm at work. Yeah. I'm in meetings, all the things. So I can't answer all the time. So this particular day, I didn't answer because I was just really trying to take a break from him and his shenanigans. And he drove to my place and in the police car. And he was not even supposed to be in that area because that's not the area he's zoned to.
So he came there and he knocked on the door and I was just like, who is this? And it was him. So of course we get into this argument and that was the first time I experienced him choking me. He had, you know, he was choking me and all I could remember saying was, God, please do not let me die like this. You know, just do not. And that day, that same day after that happened, of course I couldn't go back into work.
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I let my supervisor know, I told him I can't come in. That same day, acted as if nothing happened. He was like, let's go to the movies. Let's take the kids to the movies. He had a son and my two daughters were still at home. And I was just thinking, wow, I can't believe that this is happening. And that was the roller coaster that I was on for months with him. Yeah, for months.
Let me just stop because you have said so much good stuff that I want to start unpacking some of that. And I tell you as a survivor myself, so much of what you're saying is exactly what I experienced as well. And when I have other survivors on the stories are eerily similar. One thing you said is at the beginning, he was like so perfect. was everything. You love this about him. You love that about him. You love this about him.
What I've later come to realize and learn is narcissists mirror you. They find out what you value and like and love, and they pretend to value like love those same things. And what my counselor actually told me is at the beginning, you fall in love with yourself because they pretend to be who you are. And that's one of their most manipulative tricks is doing that to get you hooked so that they can later abuse you. Yeah. And isolate you.
from your family and I come from a very tight-knit and close family. He would always just kind of say little things that, well, you shouldn't do this, you know, don't help your dad do this or you know, your family and I'm just thinking, no, this is my family and especially when it comes to my parents, you're not going to tell me, no, I'm not going to support them, I'm not going to help them, that's not going to work.
And that's another key aspect of abusive behaviors in general and narcissistic relationships is they isolate you from people. way with me. I was isolated from my family, from my friends. Like you said, he would say little things to make me feel like maybe they, couldn't trust them or maybe they didn't have my best interest. Maybe they were taking advantage of me because he fed this into me. And the purpose again is to isolate you for many reasons. But one, as you said,
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so that when you go and report what's going on, people don't believe you because your support system's gone. And it's even worse in your situation when they are in a position of authority like a police officer. In my case, he was the president of our church. So everyone in the church sided with him and actually like harmed me. So he used his position of power, your ex, to further harm you.
And to make it harder for you to report it because as you said, from researching it, what are the chances that they're going to investigate one of their own? Correct. Yeah. But it was nothing but a miracle that they did. Explain that. Like, how did you get up enough courage to do that? That is brave. Well, on the very last episode with him where he chased me around my apartment,
my daughter who is now a freshman in college and she was downstairs and so we were upstairs in the bedroom and arguing and so he cornered me in the closet and he began to you know put his hands around my neck and so then I'm running out of the closet and I'm calling for my daughter and as I'm doing that he grabbed me and he slammed my head into the wall.
And so I'm getting away, running downstairs, and my daughter was right there, you know, when I was telling her, call 911, call 911. And as she had the phone getting ready to call, then he was chasing her, trying to get the phone from her so that she could not call. So that was one of his charges. It was interference because he did that. So once that happened, he left.
And so when he left, I was just like, OK, you know, I really didn't know which direction to turn or what to do at that time. So I had not shared with my family what had been going on. I was embarrassed that, you know, a person like me that, you know, people look up to that you're so strong and how could you allow yourself to be in this situation? So I was, you know,
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ashamed. I just had all of the feelings that was going on. But when my daughter was involved with it, I was like, no, absolutely not. This, this, that was a breaking point for me. So I told my, my father first, him and my mom, and they were like, my goodness, my goodness. And my dad said, you need to contact the police department.
you need to contact the chief of police. And I said, okay. And he said, Jackie, you need to do it. So I formulated an email. I sent an email. So that incident happened on a Saturday. That Monday, I put together an email and I sent it to the chief of police at that time. I had no idea that he would respond and he would respond immediately.
And before I hit send, I also prayed. said, God, help me. And I hit the send button. And probably within a couple of hours, if that someone from the crime victims unit for the Austin Police Department called me. She asked me, where was I? Was I in a safe place? And I told them, yes, I was in a safe place. They told me not to go back.
you know, don't go back home and, you know, all the steps. So I did go back home though, just to get a bag for me and my daughter. And then we went to my mom's. And so he realized later on in the evening, I think what was going on. And then before he, I think before he was relieved with paid administrative duty, I think he kind of sensed.
something was happening. And so then he was relieved of duty until the investigation. And so I started meeting with the detectives and then I went to the county, Williamson County, because I was in that county at that time and I made a report. And so when I made the report, they also did the emergency order, protective order. And so I told them also,
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that I felt that he had a tracker on my car. So when the detective went out to look, they didn't see anything, but they sent me to the police department's garage so that they can do a thorough investigation. So they did that. And sure enough, there was a tracker on my car. Yeah. my goodness. Let me pause for a second, first of all. I need to ask you something.
Did you read my blog by chance? I did not. Okay, this is important. You did not read my story. My ex at the last incident, slammed my head against the wall, like you grabbed me by the neck next, slam my head against the wall and then impeded the calling of 911 because he took all my electronics, my cell phone, my iPad and the cord to my computer so I couldn't call out. So they do the same things. Like these narcissists are very predictable.
And so you see it consistently across the people's survivor stories where you have these very similar trends. And let me also say one more thing. And I think this is important to touch on before we continue with your story is you'd be watching television and you'd be yelling, what are you doing? Get away from him. What are you thinking of? You you might be watching sleep with the enemy or any of those films where there's woman is being abused by a male. When we're in our own situation and you seem like me.
financially independent, educated, confident, strong woman. Yet when we're in that situation, it is a lot harder to do what you would tell another person to do. Yeah, absolutely. And as I stated earlier, looking back at this situation, you know, was like, I saw everything upfront and in the beginning, just different behaviors.
But because I had never really experienced it for myself and I wasn't in it, then it was really kind of difficult for me to really, really see it. So yeah, that's very true. Okay. Now let's, sorry to interrupt there. Let's continue your story. So, so they found a tracker on the car. Yeah. So they found a tracker on the car. So we,
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Of course, there was an investigator with the county and then internal affairs launched an investigation. So I went through that as well. So at the end result, he ended up resigning because they were going to terminate him, but he ended up resigning, but he was indicted for what had happened. And when he was indicted,
He was really angry. when I went to work, so I worked at a church. And when I went to work that morning before I got there, one of my really good friends, she was working there and she always got there early. And she told me, she said, don't come, don't come to work. And I said, what's happening? And she said, he's across the street leaning against the car, smoking a cigarette. I'm like smoking a cigarette. So I didn't go.
and I called my supervisor and I called the detective who in turn called his attorney, you know, because he was violating the order. He was violating, he was out on bond, you know, cause he had went to jail and he got out on bond. So he was violating all of those things. And so then I waited and I ended up going to work and then my supervisor, he followed me home. We went like a different route. And so,
because he was also prior military. He had only been in the military, I think for maybe four years. So he started going to see a doctor at the VA. And so before it was all over with, he did counseling. And if he completed the counseling and he took anger management and all these things, he would not have to go to court and they would basically drop it, the charges.
but he could never be a police officer ever again because he was also diagnosed as being bipolar. So, you know, if you're bipolar, you can't carry a gun. And so, you know, he was diagnosed with that. And then he also wrote a letter. I never received the letter, but he wrote a letter that was part of his therapy. wrote a letter apologizing to me as well as admitting that what he had done.
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And then that was pretty much the end of it. I didn't see him anymore or hear from him anymore. And I started my healing process of going to the counselor and just unpacking all of that. And what I really loved about my counselor is she went all the way back, even to my childhood. I've never experienced any trauma like that, but
You know, we all experience some form of trauma and we all experience it. And that also is why sometimes we do some of the things that we do because of the experiences that we had. And so that was really good that I was able to, you know, go through that. And so my employer, they were very, very generous to me. They paid for my counseling as long as I needed to go. Whatever I needed, they were there.
Now, they were there, but then there were some people that were like, why did you do that? We know him. He's a good guy. He has a child. He has a livelihood. Why would you jeopardize that? So was it okay for him to do what he did to me? And I may not have came out alive. And my children, all four of them, I have two grown sons and they were gone from home at the time and my two daughters.
They will be without a mother. My family would be without a daughter and a sister. And would that be okay? Let me pause you again right there. Are you sure you haven't read my blog? I am positive. My ex also went through that same sort of program that we call the violence diversion program here where I'm from. But basically if they go through the anger management counseling and all the other steps, then they don't go to trial and then they don't face jail time.
And I had the choice, the assistant DA gave me the choice of whether I wanted to go forward with a trial or do that. And I chose to do that because he was a professor. He had two kids of his own. They were not mine. He needed that job. know, I knew he needed some sort of employment and I knew he had those kids, but like you, you didn't go for the full extent of the law. didn't say, you you, would imagine you gave him the
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the luxury of going through this program. You extended that gracious offer to him. And yet people still said you didn't, you shouldn't have done anything. You should have just let him go. You should have just let him get away with it. And as you said, what about you? What about your kids? What about his kids? You know what I mean? Like no accountability for these actions. It really is amazing. I'd like to talk about at least two more things. I want to hear about your healing journey.
But I want to hear also about the people who didn't support you and who are like, but he's a great guy because narcissists are wonderful at painting this, putting on this mask and this facade of being a wonderful person. They're prominent members in the community, police officers, professors, presidents of churches, but behind closed doors, that mask slips and you saw what it was behind it. And I saw what was behind it.
So could you speak a little bit to how the sort of people that didn't support you, maybe how that made you feel? I felt really, I felt rejected. Yes. I felt as if they were taking someone's side because of who they were versus me. And they didn't recognize my feelings. these weren't, some of these people were not strangers.
They were not strangers. so when they were close like that, you know, to me, it was like, wow. And then I heard like someone would tell me, well, I have a friend and she went through that with her spouse or significant other and she's still there. And well, that's good for her. You know, and you know, she's crying and God's going to help.
Well, you know what, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Yes, I am a woman of faith, but God gives us common sense. And the common sense of that that he gives us is that we cannot be in situations that are detrimental to us. And especially if we have children involved, we have to do what's best for us. And that's what I did in my situation. And I had no idea. I didn't.
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I was scared and even when he was going through that process, even the detective told me, you know, we don't know because, you know, he's an officer. He said, I just want to tell you what might happen. Not that I'm on his side, but this is what may happen. It may go in his favor. And that whole time I was like, huh, okay. You know, just, just a wreck.
But then I had to say, you know what, I'm just going to let this all go. I know that I told my truth. I know that I did the correct thing. And so I know that however it's supposed to go, it's going to work out. If he got off, then somewhere along the line, he was going to continue that cycle to where he wouldn't get off. So that's where my just surrendering and saying, okay, I'm just letting this go.
And it ended up going the way that it should have gone. But to answer your question again, I just felt really bad that someone would question me of why would I do this? Because people don't know what goes on behind closed doors. They only know what you show them and they only know what you tell them. And, you know, they just...
They don't know. So you have to be open to hear both sides of the story. You're right. And they don't hear both sides. Most people will side with who they like more, not necessarily with what is true or right or good. And I think misogyny plays a huge role in it where women are supposed to... They start to look for... Then they start to put you on trial.
Were you too mouthy? Were you too opinionated? Did you not do this? Did you not do that? You know, I have heard all kind of rumors from mostly, unfortunately, women. I have heard that there was infidelity in my marriage. Well, there was, but I wasn't the one that was cheating on him. Correct. have heard, correct. There was, but it wasn't that way. I was told that there was mental health issues.
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Again, there were, but it wasn't me. We were in counseling for over, almost our entire relationship did his problem with alcohol and abuse. It's these classical things of what they accuse women of, being manipulative, being crazy, being vindictive, being promiscuous. That's just misogyny. That's not grounded in any sort of truth. But I can't tell you the number of women specifically in my church who this is what I heard.
because I questioned their president. I had made it so that the president didn't look like Mr. Perfect. Yeah. But ultimately I got to the place where you did where I'm going to speak my truth. Right. People that want to talk bad about me, let them. Let them. I'll figure out who my true friends are that way. That's true. Did you also find that you did have true friends that really did stand by you? Yes, I did. Because there was only a handful of them. It wasn't many, but my true friends who have always been
my true friends, you know, they were there. Did your family stick by you too? My family, they were my biggest supporters. They always have been. And so they were my biggest supporters all the way through the whole process. you know, even now. So you know a lot of support. So that's good. That is wonderful. Yes. Now, were you with this man for a while? No, I was not. It was about probably a year.
So you probably didn't form that close of a connection with his children. Well, no, his son was around all the time. He had one son and his son was at that time, I want to say maybe seven or eight. OK, yeah, he wasn't too far behind my daughter. So yeah, so his son would be around us all the time. But one particular time that he was really cutting up, his son just kind of stood there and he looked as if
He had seen that scene before and I did reach out to, I didn't say this part, but after I had sent a letter, the email to the chief, I did reach out to the ex-wife and I thought that was also strange too that you have your child around me and you know, we're doing all the things and you never wanted me to meet your ex-wife. Like she was always just deranged and you know, she was bitter.
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and all the things. Well, I ended up having a conversation with her and he was abusive to her, but she never said anything. And so that was why the son, again, when I look back at just different little things and he was really scared because he was, you know, when he would get upset, his voice was just like really, like really aggressive. And so his son was kind of like timid and
just really like as if he was afraid of him that he knew of what he would possibly do to him. I'd never seen him do anything to his son, but you know, it was just again looking back. Yeah. Yeah. He was scared. Well, good for you for reaching out to her. I too reached out to my ex's wife who was the mother of his children and we were in a long relationship and sort of during this time he
definitely triangulated us. She didn't like me at all. I wasn't that I disliked her, but she was very intrusive, didn't respect any sort of boundaries. Very, I think she was paranoid. so, you know, like she wanted a lot of things that were kind of unreasonable. But I reached out to her and, you know, I talked to her and she was like, I'm so sorry, you know, and then whenever he went to her,
she sided with him and further smeared me within the church community. And I think a couple reasons were behind that. But the main one I think is there was already so much stigma on their family because she left him for the minister's daughter. Yeah, that was a big scandal. And then she broke up with the minister's daughter.
and started dating a trans man. And we live in a very small community, so that isn't readily, that's not seen a lot. I think there was so much stigma and pressure on her that she sort of felt like we can't handle now their dad being an alcoholic and abusive. And so they sort of united and ganged up on me. And so I've never actually held that against her because I know that he cheated on her repeatedly. He told me he would brag about it actually, which had been my red flag.
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and that he was not good to her. So I know that she suffered from, if not physical abuse, other forms of abuse by him to include financial abuse actually. So I never held that against her, but I I'm glad that you did get a positive reaction and we're able to talk to the mom. Yeah. I want to say this really quickly when you said about financial. another thing about them is they can really, make it seem like they have it all together.
And I thought that he did because, know, I'm thinking he is a police officer, so he should have his things together. But he didn't. And I will never forget he asked me on multiple occasions to borrow money. He was getting ready. He wasn't able to pay his rent. And I'm just like, OK, what? Here I am with two kids. You're you're asking me to help you.
you know, but, he would always say, well from the divorce and I'm still helping with paying the house note and, just all of this, he would really lay it on. But even in that, you know, even when we went through the internal affairs investigation and I was sharing that, and those are things that he should not have been doing and his credit, just all those things should have been on the up and up with the type of position that he had.
And so it was just, yeah, it was a lot. It was really cringed. That is a lot. That is a lot. And similar situation and incredible debt, bad with money, always making me. We would we would go to eat and almost every time I had to pay for both of us because he didn't have any money. And again, you know, I'm not I played a role in this, too, but he would guilt me and say, you know, all the one time he said, you know, my kids.
All of their friends have been to a foreign country and they haven't and I just can't afford it. Now, mind you, he's a professor. I'm a researcher. We probably made comparable money, but I had two little kids of my own. And so I paid to take him and his kids to Costa Rica. So his kids could have that experience. And I remember it was about, we got back and I had paid to take them to Costa Rica. And about a month later, I was taking my kids to Disney and I asked him for a ride to the airport and he refused.
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He said he didn't have the time and he didn't want to spend the gas money to get there. And I'm thinking, I just spent thousands of dollars to take you and your children to Costa Rica and you can't drive me to the airport for my kids vacation? Wow. Yeah. So, so there are all types of financial abuse and, but they don't care. They just don't care because they view humans, everyone as a resource to manipulate, not as an actual person that deserves respect and love and care.
and dignity, you You also mentioned that rang so true to me that you felt shame. And that was probably the main feeling I felt as well. Would you mind speaking to that? Yeah, again, it just goes back to just the type of person that I am, that I would be there. And then even when the people that were on his side and they were taking sides with him,
I felt shame with that as well because then I started second guessing myself of maybe I should not have done that. Maybe I should have just left it alone, let him go about his business and be done with it. And then just shame like with my family because they were, in my mind, I'm sure they weren't thinking this, but I'm thinking they're thinking, you know, why is she so dumb? You know, why?
Why was she like this and like that? You know, didn't she see it? Because my father had told me early into our relationship, my father had told me that he had heard stories about police officers and how, you know, not all of them, but, know, some of them, they are abusive and all the things. And I was like, no, not him because he's so loving and he's this and he's that.
You know, and so when I would look back and reflect on that conversation that I had with my dad, then I'm like, wow, know, just shame would just come back, you know, upon me because the at the bottom line was just how did I allow myself to be in that and for it to continue. And, you know, he was bold because in the beginning it was little bitty things.
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But when he felt that he could get away with different things, then it was like when he pulled the taser, you pulled the taser on me, you know? I remember reading about that in your little art script. He pulled the taser. Tell me about the little things before the taser, and then I want to hear about the taser. It would just be little things that he would, if he got upset, he would say things like, I should just tweak your neck or, you know, and he would just be enraged.
And so it would be things like that that he would be more verbal. He didn't hit me or anything until towards the end. So I think what he was feeling was because I was letting him continue to do these things because he would do them. He would apologize. He would buy gifts and, you know, just my birthday and just just because all the things he would just make it seem as if.
nothing happened and we're going on as if all things are great. So he would do that. And then that particular day or that particular evening when we were arguing, I don't even remember, it would be little simple things that wouldn't even make sense. But the basis of our conversation a lot of times was around my phone. It was around my phone, around me not answering or if I answered, well, what am I doing?
Who am I talking to? Oh, well, you're talking to the people at the church. The people at the church, listen, everybody that was on staff there, there was only like maybe 40, maybe 45 of us on staff, we're all married. And we're working at a church, not saying that it can't happen, but for the most part, we're all trying to do the right things, striving to live the way that we're supposed to live.
So nobody is trying to have an affair with the pastors at the church. I'm having a meeting. I have a meeting every single week with, you know, my boss. I'm not looking at him like that, but you know, those are the things. And so that was a lot of the disagreements, you know, that we would have would be, well, where are you? Well, why aren't you here? Or, well, you said you were going there. Well, what's taking you so long? Because.
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If I can take as high ever long as I want to take, you know, I'm not don't question me. Don't ask me. Well, you said you're going to the store and you don't come back 45 minutes later. OK, I might be still shopping. I might decide to go to another store. He's trying to control you and manipulate you and put and put his authority on you. And he was testing you at the beginning to see what can I get away with? I get away with. Yeah.
And mine did as well for years and I found every test and he kept pushing. That's exactly what he did it. How did we get to the taser? So that particular night we were arguing he was getting ready to leave and go because he would do like what he called it off duty work as a security guard at different places restaurants hotels and different things like that.
So that particular evening we were arguing and we were at the steps and he was just going on and on and on. And so at that point I was just like, okay, whatever. And he hated that and I knew that, but you know, I would just be like, okay, you know, whatever. And that's when he was like, what, whatever. And so he pulled it out and then my eyes were like, my God, this guy really pulled out this taser if he is going to use it on me.
Yeah. So I'm sure that police officers are not supposed to do that, right? Absolutely not. That's probably another George Bull offense, right? Absolutely. So for someone to say that you went hard on this man, I mean, right there, you could have called the police on him and said this officer just pulled out a taser on me for no reason because I said whatever. Yeah. So you were more than gracious and kind to him.
More than gracious to him, more than gracious. And even early on when I was even at his place, at his place, whatever, we had a disagreement. said, you know what, I'm going to leave. And he chased me in his truck. And he was like, and he kept calling me and calling me. I kept hitting the climb. Then I blocked him. So he harassed you? Yeah, he harassed me. And then he chased you another Tuesday.
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that you could have called the police on right there. Yeah. But he was like, no. Yeah. But I was difficult. And so, you know, then he was like, well, I, you know, I'm sorry. I'll never do it again. It was always I'll never do it again. Never did it. It was always that. But and I told him, no, I'm not coming back. I'm not coming back over there. I I just need a breather, you know, away from you at this moment. So there were very there was so, so many.
And it's not that it was every single day that there was an episode, but you know, there were episodes and there were signs that when I look back and be like, you know what, I should have just been like, I don't care about your apology anymore. Just, but you know, he would apologize and then he would talk about how his dad wasn't there, how his mom really wasn't, you know, a great mom and how I had these great, you know,
My family is so great and I have such a great relationship. And so he played on that sympathy part too of, you know, and I'm thinking, I could be the savior that could, you know, love him and treat him right, you know, and be this loyal partner to him. All these things that I was thinking and the whole time he was just doing the most. Because you're an empathetic caring...
person that wants to see the best in someone and wants to make people better, you know, because you're a good person. And so that's that's a perfectly natural response. I felt myself much the same way you want to help them you want to you want to be that person for them. My ex didn't have a very good relationship with his parents either. They live 1500 miles away. They never once visited him never once in two decades. And I wasn't with him for two decades. But in the two decades he lived away. They visited him one time when he got his PhD.
never before or since. And so I felt no one in his family ever visited. And so I thought, you know, his kids could have my family to be like sort of like their grandparents that they don't have. They could have my, you know, we could be a family and I could give them something they didn't have, much like what you're saying. But with them, because they lack empathy, they lack any ability to commit and be a good person, and they're so disruptive.
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (40:45.329)
there's really no repairing the relationship. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So tell me about your healing process because look at you, you're a beautiful woman in a beautiful house with beautiful plants. You have this fantastic story. You're brave to come on and talk about it. They're incredibly brave. You took on the Austin police force for goodness sake. Yeah. And you won. Way to go because I can tell you, I know from research,
It is systemic within law enforcement and I am former military myself, but I know that abuse is systemic within both systems, any sort of power structure system. It's systemic and there is a self-selection process of who even goes into these professions. And then once they get in it, the whole, it's very corrupt. is, and I'm not saying all police officers, but I will say the entire criminal justice system needs overhauled. But you took that on and you won and
I can tell you most people don't win and they wouldn't even be brave enough to take that on. So you are a brave person and you're a strong person. How did you heal after that? I'm interested to hear how did you, how did you heal? So before I talk about the healing, I want to give a shout out to the chief of police at that time, chief Art Arcevedo, and he is no longer
with Austin. I believe he's in Florida now. He went to Houston after Austin, he was very just again, I had no idea that he would forward that email to the crime victims unit and they were on it that same day within hours. So shout out to them to where they were not corrupt and they wanted to make sure that they got the information and got to the bottom of it. But
For my healing process, of course, I did go through counseling and it was really my fate, coupled with counseling, with my support. And then I had to realize that it was not me. Because that's another thing that you start second guessing of like, okay, well, what did I do? I may have said something.
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (43:01.081)
Because he would also kind of say things like that well if you shouldn't if you didn't say this or if you didn't do that and even though I knew whatever Would get on his nerves that still did not mean that you could do what you did to me, right? No, we say little things that might be one skin that doesn't give them the right to pull out a taser on you Chase you around in a truck harass you with text choke you and grab your head and slam it against and throw you against a wall Not at all
Not at all. So, you know, I had to come to that realization too, that it was not my fault. It was, were there some things that I could have done differently? Absolutely. But that what he was doing, his actions, that had nothing to do with me. That had to do with him, the demons that he had within him that he had to fight himself.
So when I came to that realization and then again just with the therapy and taking care of myself, I think that was a really big part of me setting boundaries me stepping away and saying, you know what I need to heal for myself and what what does that healing journey looks like look like that could be me taking trips that could be me just stepping away.
Not that I'm totally isolating, but just stepping away so that I could be in a quiet place and I could be still and have clarity in my thoughts and what's going on. So I went on this whole wellness and self-care journey. My daughter even had to go through counseling. We had to do that with her because it was just a whole thing.
that we went through, but I also realized that I had to love me. You know, I had to love me. I had to not allow me to accept things that I know are not for me or that are not good for me. And I tell women that too, you know, and whether this situation or any situation, a lot of times we can say, we had wasted time. Really the time is not wasted.
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (45:21.631)
Yeah, you we went through that situation and that was a bad situation. But really time is not wasted because what I learned, I learned things in those months. I learned about myself, my character rebuilding, you know, my myself being resilient, being able to come back from what I had experienced. And so those failures.
are not failures, they're just learned lessons for us. And then I also learned what am I gonna accept in my next relationship? I love it, yeah. And I needed to be healed even from that. Do I have some triggers sometimes? Yeah, like if something may happen, and it's not all the time, but if something may happen and I may just have a moment that I think about, wow, this is what happened.
But then I have to immediately say, okay, no, I have to replace those thoughts with good thoughts. I might have to practice some bots breathing. know, I may have to, whatever that is for me to get back into that space that I need to be is, you what I do. And I think that's so important in what you're offering as a message of hope, because one, we can't change the negative things that happened to us.
But what we can do is say, we going to look at this exclusively as horrible? Or are we going to say it was horrible, but look at what I learned, look at what I gained, look at what I've overcome. And second of all, you're now using your story to support other victims of abuse. So that is so wonderful that you're using this negative thing and you're saying.
I'm healed or healing, it's probably an ongoing process. But I'm going to use this to help other people and let other people know they're not alone and they can overcome this and they can get out of bad situations and they can heal and they can move on to live their best lives. How has telling your story been a part of your healing journey? I feel that we have to tell our stories because that not only does it help someone else,
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (47:39.809)
but it also helps us to continue to heal and to process it. And it might not be right away. And we may not share, that's another thing I talked about just last week. I shared on a social media post about transparency. We may not share every private part of our story, but the part that we should share is the vulnerable part of our story that would resonate with someone else.
to where they're like, oh, I feel you. I could feel what you're saying. I'm going through this of what you went through. And so I think it's important for us to share our stories because your story can be what someone needs for them to keep living. Exactly. Your smile can be what someone needs to not jump off that bridge.
you know, whatever it is that day. And that's why I always advocate, be kind because people, even my family, they did not know what I was going through. people can be so cruel to other people, but you just don't know like behind closed doors, what those people are going through. And so it's important for us to be kind. And again, when we go through things, it's important for us
to share our story because your story could be the saving grace for someone. I couldn't agree with that more. as someone I interviewed recently said, it's like we're all just, all of us that are speaking about it, telling our story, sharing our experiences, we're putting little pebbles in a pond and it creates a ripple effect. Yeah. And you don't know who you're going to influence. And even if it's just one person that...
maybe gets a little bit more confidence and maybe they leave the relationship that's abusive or maybe they, you know, get up and go for a jog that day. We are making a difference. We're talking about it. We're taking away the stigma associated with it and we're giving other people hope. And I think that that is so important and it's such a major part of this journey. And you also said something and I wrote this in one of my blogs. It's both helps others, but it
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (50:00.043)
does help ourselves. It does. It helps us to process what's going on by sharing your story and to come to terms with, yes, I experienced this. This is part of my story, but it's not the end of my story. There's more to my story. Yeah. And I think a part also about sharing your story is when you get over the shame. Yes. Then you can share your story because it was a while before I could because of the shame. And what would people think?
when they, you know, if they listen to your podcast, oh my God, Jackie is on there. What? That happened to her. I don't believe it. You know, and, once you get past that and other people's opinions, it makes it a lot easier for you to share it. And you might just share it one-on-one. You know, there'll be times it's one-on-one. You may not have a big platform to share it. And like you were saying, if you can just reach that.
one person, that one person to let them know that, this can work. And I was fortunate to have support. I was fortunate not to lose, you know, my home where I was staying. And I know a lot of that of why women don't tell or they don't report is because that male, that person is a primary
financial provider for them. And so, but I want them to know you can do it. There are resources out there. Again, I was fortunate to where I didn't have to use the resources. I did end up going to some resource place that they had referred me to, but I didn't have to use them. And, one thing I did learn as well is that we do not have enough resources
for this. No, we don't. You're right. I did see that, you know, to where the volunteers and the money is not there as if it's just a second thought that women and men can experience domestic violence, you know. And so I think that's something that we really need to really push, you know, our our politicians and, you know, on the local level, because we know it starts on the local level is that
i am Ekho Podcast Studio (52:23.701)
Yes, we need you to really take this seriously. I agree. And you're right. The resources are lacking. We have like a domestic violence abuse, a shelter for men and women persons that are going through domestic violence issues. And I did seek their support, not financially, but for counseling. So I was getting some counseling services from them, but their resources are so limited.
you know, they're doing the best with what they have, but they don't have that much. And you know, this might sound trivial, but like, even some people stay in these relationships, absolutely, because they're, you know, the reasons you spoke of, but even sometimes they do it for their pets. Like if I go to a shelter, I'm not going be able to take my pets with me, what's going to happen to them, you know? So there's all these obstacles that prohibit people from getting the actual support they need.
And that needs to be the focus of funding, like you said, from the local level up to the federal level. It really needs funded so much better than it is. And you're right, it's like an half-breath thought, it really is. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, I can't thank you enough for coming on. Thank you. Your story is remarkable. It's amazing that you took on, again, the Austin police force and won.
And I am so proud of you and I'm so happy to get to know you. So, yes. Thank you. Do you do speaking events or anything like that? I do. You do? Yes. Okay. Let's get your information if it's okay. Absolutely. They can reach me on my website, which is Jackie O. Where can folks reach out to have you come and speak for them? Under our contact page, there's a form and I also have a speaker sheet.
So yeah, that's how they can reach me and they can follow me also on social media. I'm on Instagram and Facebook is Jackie. Jackie.
